the case loads plummeted. 50% in the welfare arena after congress, newt gingrich and bill clinton -- >> it's wonderful. >> bill: we all agree that what they did in '96 was good for the country, for the poor, for everybody. we all agree? >> actually for poor people, yes. >> bill: so why on earth would he want to water that down? he being president obama? why would you want to do that? >> because states within to experiment -- >> bill: wait, wait. who cares whether states want to experiment? if the federal law is working for the good of the country. what do i care whether delaware or california wants to do something differently? why should i care? >> because over time, none of these federal or state or local, either laws work well. i send an intern out to these job centers to see what kinds of help they gave. they all just directed her to handouts. she had to struggle to get help. >> bill: if you say the work welfare rules or law didn't work, how can stats say it did? how can you say it didn't? >> for a while, we send a message. five years, you're off. and you have to work. a lot of wo